I arrived at Warszawa Centralna from W-wa Jeziorki at 6:20am, changing trains on my way to Krakow. The TV screens around the station were all showing the same image: Barack Obama's victory speech. I popped into the Scottish Restaurant for some breakfast, and returning to the platforms to await my Krakow-bound train, the image on the TV was the same. The newspapers were still without a verdict: "OBAMA/McCAIN: (delete as appropriate)" was Gazeta Wyborcza's headline this morning. At the Scottish Restaurant, I heard the following dialogue:Manager [to 'crew member']: Wiemy kto wygrał amerykańskie wybory?
(Do we know who won the American elections?)
Crew member: Tak. (Yes.)
Manager: No to kto? (Well, who?)
Crew member: Ten murzyn. (That negro.)
The crew member, female, early 20s, most probably a student, delivered the line in an entirely matter-of-fact, 'that's just the way it is' manner, devoid of malice, but devoid of thought. It struck me that Poland's probably 40 years behind the US and UK in terms of race relations, for the simple reason that the country is 99% ethnically homogenous.
This time last year:
Culex Pipiens out in force
"Well, I can picture the cheese"
They may be 40 year behind the UK right now, but that doesn't mean it will take them 40 years to catch up, I think. Eventually even gay rights and equality for women may help the tide rise for all boats.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your comment. The comments I have heard since the result in Warsaw have disgusted me - this country is still the one depicted in the Painted Bird - a very small minded and insular place. Poles like to think of themselves as being internationally minded europeans - the fact that they elect quacks like Kaczynski and make disgusting racist chants against world leaders shows they still have a heck of a long way to go
ReplyDeleteMust say I was a bit offended by your generalisation. I've heard rascist comments in Poland as much as I have in other countries and on the particulr note of 'murzyn' have never heard it as a rascist term. Am I naive? Well I've never met with Poles who used the term in the same way English used the word Coon, Nigger or Darkie. 'Hey ty murzynie' just doesn't exist as a derogatory form like the word 'czarnuch' for example. Perhaps I'm wrong, but of anyone is interested they can look up the etymology of the word and decide for themselves.
ReplyDeleteGrowing up on a predominantly black estate in London I have many black friends none of whome is or ever was offended when referred to as black which effectively is the the meaning of murzyn - i.e. black skinned person. In our PC conscious west african american or black american are acceptable terms so why wouldn't 'murzyn amerykański' aslo be acceptable in this light?
Reading anonymous' and dc's reply I would ask them not to be so sure of themselves or of European norms. This article I came across today might interest them http://tinyurl.com/5solun in RP today where the blogger reports that in Germany divorced parents are forbidden to contact there children in any language other than German. A comment in reply ponders the advise ' Don't buy from Jews, dont speak Polish, French and English' and asks where we might have heard this institutionalised racism before?
If there is one thing I'm a little sensitive to it's rascist generalisations - so let's all keep an eye out for them, eh chaps?
Could you enlighten me perhaps? My Polish is quite limited. Is "murzyn" a derogatory word?
ReplyDeleteI saw a translated article from Gazeta Wyborcza (via Uzar News) that said 54% of Poles think Obama will be a better President than Bush. OK, so it's hard to pick a lower standard to compare, but what do you think about this 54%? How does that square with the racist comments you hear?
Ad - you beat me to it on the meaning of the word. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteAs for the rest, I made no statement about the present condition of racial perceptions as they exist today in Poland. Mainly because I have little idea about Poland - that's why I asked about the article. I do have ideas about what may be possible in the future.
I probably know more about Germany and I agree there are big issues. My impression is that perceptions of race there seem to split quite close to one's general politics. Not all Germans are racists.
dc - i've read more on Jungedamt and note that German has to be used in the presence of the Jungedamt's legal representatives (lawyers). I suspected as much but still think this is a bit contrived (foreign to German translators should surely be acceptable - we manage in the UK in this manner).
ReplyDeleteAs for the meaning of murzyn I was only speaking from personal experience and from reading limited sources. I must admit I was surprised by Michal's take on the use of word but wasn't there to hear it used. Perhaps I've been kiddng myself whenever I have heard the word but really don't think I have. The fact that Polish society has such a homogeneity I don't dispute but for every rascist reaction I've heard many more non racist ones. As to us here in Poland being 40 years behind the US or UK in foreign relations however I would challenge very strongly.
And since I've messed around with the subject of this blog item perhaps it would be best to leave a link to the official Polish response to the matter I raised (just for the record http://orka2.sejm.gov.pl/IZ5.nsf/main/04D44712 ) with the hope that Michał forgives the digression.
ReplyDeleteWell, Ad has forced me to think a bit harder here - Gazeta Wyborcza itself uses the term 'Murzyn' (note: with a capital 'M', but then we can't hear whether people are saying it with an upper or lower case 'M' when they speak).
ReplyDeleteI am minded of an incident relayed to me many years ago (1980s) by old Polish Saturday schoolmate and fellow zuch and harcerz Marek S. He was visiting Warsaw University in the gloomy days of late PRL, and witnessed the following scene in the University refectory:
[African student, speaking reasonable Polish:] Please could you pass me the salt.
[Polish student, in ton pouczający] Wait until the white people have eaten. Then you can have the salt.
Marek, raised in London, was of course shocked. He said that in this statement there was not a trace of malice, or hatred of the dark-skinned student, just a natural sense of pecking order.
It's exactly that same sense that I felt from the girl at the till that Wednesday morning.
An observation, which you may either take as ingrained racism, or not, as you choose.
My post, I think, was pretty much non-judgmental. I did not use the word 'racist', because I don't think the girl was racist. I don't think she's given the issue of race a second thought. Why? Because in a country as ethnically homogenous as Poland, it's an issue you are very, very rarely confronted with.
ReplyDeleteFeel a bit of a twat having gone off at a tangent and reflect that perhaps the first two comments set me off down the wrong road. Rereading your blog it is quite clear that your comment was neutral and not highlighting any predjudice. So I do agree with you when you note that Poland's homogeneity has cocooned its general populace who are therefore less affected. Whether that means they are 'behind' is debatable.
ReplyDeleteI have to support you Mike. I know Poland's idiot little brother (Lithuania), very well, and there is the same natural, automatic use of ¨negras,¨ when referring to Obama.
ReplyDeleteIt is really a socio-linguistic, or even politico-linguistic matter. The use of the word negro does not have the polticial and race-relation connotations as it does in, say, the UK or US. It is just a bald statement of fact. A negro is a negro.
Last month, the president of the Lithuanian Basketball League said something like ¨it is a shamme that all the negros were playing in Lithuania. The black-arses are stopping our boys from playing.¨
Here, the controversy was on his use on the highly derogatory black-arses, rather than the factual negro.
http://newzar.wordpress.com/2008/11/13/gorski’s-shocking-comments/
ReplyDelete